
Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:14:34 GMT
Actually, you would get 40cm by 40 cm tiles and fill the gap with sand, cement and grout..... Well, if you are prepared to cheat..... And if you must nitpick, it should be ' gaps,' surely?



Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:18:19 GMT
Conion: that just the bit I can't do! I've been working on all sorts of theories (trying to find out the length/width ...which are the same...of each little square so that when a) I add up the numbers of the 3 squares along the top, and b) add up the two numbers down the side, and c) multiply them the answers comes to 10,000. ****** But I don't know how to set about finding the length/width of those little squares. All my many and varied theories have come to nothing. I think I need some help here if you can oblige please! Many thanks, s.fluff As Marvin says, each little tile is 1/6th of 10000 sq.cms, so about 1600 sq.cms (I use approximations to check what the answer should be. I'm an engineer and "Near Enough is Good Enough" for most real life purposes....) The side of a square tile with area 1600 sq.cms is simply the square root of the area, 1600 sq.cms, which is 40cms per side (40cms x 40cms =1600 sq.cms). That's the approximate answer to give a clue to the correct answer.



Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:24:05 GMT
"Near Enough is Good Enough" Fits where it touches?



Post by susukifluff on Apr 21, 2013 18:27:54 GMT
Sorry to be dense......what are you trying to show me pls. Marvin? Is it that even if you have squares, they don't necessarily fit into a bigger square. Ah ha! Is light dawning. (Pls say yes ! ) [/size] [/quote] Not just YES,but a lightbulb! I chose the figure 41cms because it works out close enough for demonstration purposes. If you want accuracy, my dear, you shall have it! !0,000 square centimetres in a square metre, yes? YESDivide by 6, that gives 1666.6667. TO GET THE LENGTH OF EACH LITTLE SQUARE....NO IT CAN'T MEAN THAT? I KNOW THERE ARE 6 SQUARES BUT WHAT DOES DIVIDING 10,000 BY SIX GIVE US PLS. WHY DO WE DO THAT??Square root of that is 40.824829. OOPS! LOST ME NOW..........IF I COULD UNDERSTAND THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE, THEN I MIGHT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS SQUARE ROOT BUSINESS.So if you can find six square tiles with a side of 40.824829cms, they will cover a total area of exactly one square metre  but you still cannot lay them out as a square!! (You can lay them out as 2x3, 3x2, 6x1, or even just chuck them on the floor at random, and they still total one square metre. ) YES; I DO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING ABOUT TODAY'S DISCUSSION, NAMELY THAT SQUARES DON'T NECESSARILY FIT INTO SQUARES EXACTLY.......IT'S JUST THAT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU FOUND OUT WHAT ONE LITTLE SQUARE MEASURES WHEN YOU KNOW THE TOTAL AREA OF ALL SIX SQUARES.
Sometimes a nearasdammit approximation is good enough. The main thing is, you got the point were trying to get across, so WELL DONE SU!
WOULD YOU MIND TELLING ME STEP BY STEP PLEASE WHY YOU DID WHAT YOU DID TO GET THE MEASUREMENT OF THE LITTLE SQARES. (AGAIN ! ) LOTS OF WORDS WOULD BE NICE. I'M NEARLY THERE BELIEVE IT OR NOT BUT IT'S JUST FINDING OUT THE MEASUREMENTS OF THE LITTLE SQUARES I DON'T UNDERSTAND. MANY THANKS, SUSU[/quote]



Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:30:27 GMT
Actually, you would get 40cm by 40 cm tiles and fill the gap with sand, cement and grout..... Well, if you are prepared to cheat..... And if you must nitpick, it should be ' gaps,' surely? When I tile there is only one continuous narrow gap.



Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:38:14 GMT
"Near Enough is Good Enough" Fits where it touches? One has to leave space for final bodging adjustment. I'll tell you what really really really really irritates me, it's when someone says "oh, it was about 100 yards away" and the BBC puts "(91.4 metres)" in to clarify; or the price is given as about £100000 and they put in 134233 Euros or 143322 Dollars, Spurious accuracy should be punished by "death by a 1000 cuts (11922 cuts if the other party had its way)".



Post by susukifluff on Apr 21, 2013 18:41:51 GMT
Conion: that just the bit I can't do! I've been working on all sorts of theories (trying to find out the length/width ...which are the same...of each little square so that when a) I add up the numbers of the 3 squares along the top, and b) add up the two numbers down the side, and c) multiply them the answers comes to 10,000. ****** But I don't know how to set about finding the length/width of those little squares. All my many and varied theories have come to nothing. I think I need some help here if you can oblige please! Many thanks, s.fluff As Marvin says, each little tile is 1/6th of 10000 sq.cms, so about 1600 sq.cms (I use approximations to check what the answer should be. I'm an engineer and "Near Enough is Good Enough" for most real life purposes....) The side of a square tile with area 1600 sq.cms is simply the square root of the area, 1600 sq.cms, which is 40cms per side (40cms x 40cms =1600 sq.cms). That's the approximate answer to give a clue to the correct answer. Conion: sorry I missed your post explaining my questions. (Rest easy Marvin: please ignore my last post to you !!) ********************** So: in essence (...sorry I just do this to clear things in my own mind: 1) We have six squares 2) Their total area is 10,000 square cm 3) We divide 10,000 by 6 4) This gives us the area of each little tiny square. 5) To find out how this area (of each tiny square) is 'made up' we do the square root of its area. 6) This gives us the actual measurements of the little square. ************************ YESShe understands this question from hours ago....which tbh I can't even remember now. THANK YOU ONE AND ALL ! ***************************** I've learnt two really good things today: 1) That squares don't necessarily fit into other squares. (This would have saved you and me a lot of anguish over that cushion cover material problem some days ago. My fault obviously....not anybody here. I remember being told at length about this but I didn't get it) 2) I've found out how you discover what areas of 'things' are made up of (incredibly bad wording I know) That was really really useful. Sorry to take up so much of your Sunday! Many thanks all, susukifluff



Post by Guest on Apr 21, 2013 18:51:05 GMT
Note to self: Must remember, always use units. There are 10,000 square centimetres in a square metre. If we want six square tiles to cover that area, than each one must be 10,000/6 square centimetres in area. Then each side must be the square root of that. Try this, it may be easier to visualise. Start with a square 16cms x 16cms, total area is 256 sq cms. Your are going to use 64 tiles, so each one is 256/64 sq cms = 4 sq cms. How long is each side of each tile? I see you got there as I was writing this, but will leave the above for practice (yours, not mine ). Once again, WELL DONE SU!



Post by susukifluff on Apr 21, 2013 20:17:25 GMT
Note to self: Must remember, always use units. There are 10,000 square centimetres in a square metre. If we want six square tiles to cover that area, than each one must be 10,000/6 square centimetres in area. Then each side must be the square root of that. Try this, it may be easier to visualise. Start with a square 16cms x 16cms, total area is 256 sq cms. Your are going to use 64 tiles, so each one is 256/64 sq cms = 4 sq cms. How long is each side of each tile? I see you got there as I was writing this, but will leave the above for practice (yours, not mine ). Once again, WELL DONE SU!My God. There's no rest is there?! O.K. 1) 64 tiles 2) Area of all the tiles is 256 square cm 3) Each tiles is 256 divided by 64 = 4 square cm (THANKS FOR DOING THAT FOR ME ! ) SOOOO. THE LENGTH AND WIDTH OF ONE TILE IS 2 CM. (2cm x 2 cm is 4 SQUARE CM) ************************** Easy peasy (she says crossing fingers that she's got that right ! ) ************************** THANKS SO MUCH MARVIN AND CONION: it's been a really valuable learning day today. I knew that areas etc, weren't my strong point but now I understand a lot better. I was wittering on about the area of my garden earlier and  much earlier  about those cushion covers to be cut from a roll of material (a Level 2 paper I think)....and couldn't grasp what was going on. Now I do! You're great. Many, many thanks for all the effort involved!! (May I switch that light bulb on now please?) s.fluff



Post by yellowcat on Apr 21, 2013 21:28:13 GMT



Post by FirePig on Apr 21, 2013 21:39:25 GMT
Ooh! Some really lovely light bulbs today!
Well done Susu, another excellent paper. I remember the cushions, and now tiles, this thread covers everything.
I've had a really lovely day today before getting down to work tomorrow.
Hope the return to class and meeting Miss goes well!
FP



Post by susukifluff on Apr 21, 2013 21:40:24 GMT
Love it Yellowcat! Many thanks! &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& HOWEVER...maths class starts tomorrow. Can't tell you how I am so not looking forward to it! Not quite sure why. Hope that Miss is as good as Sir. I liked Sir...but he is no more. Ah. Suppose I'll have to go but..... s.fluff



Post by Organoleptic Icon on Apr 21, 2013 23:27:06 GMT
I chose the figure 41cms because it works out close enough for demonstration purposes. If you want accuracy, my dear, you shall have it! !0,000 square centimetres in a square metre, yes? Divide by 6, that gives 1666.6667. Square root of that is 40.824829. So if you can find six square tiles with a side of 40.824829cms, they will cover a total area of exactly one square metre  but you still cannot lay them out as a square!! (You can lay them out as 2x3, 3x2, 6x1, or even just chuck them on the floor at random, and they still total one square metre.) Sometimes a nearasdammit approximation is good enough. The main thing is, you got the point were trying to get across, so WELL DONE SU!. Actually, you would get 40cm by 40 cm tiles and fill the gap with sand, cement and grout..... Brave Connion please draw for yourself the arrangement of 6 40cm by 40cm tiles that fill a 1m by 1m space. And if you succeed, post it here. SUSU  Don't be put off by the complications raised by people here today. IF you can make any sense of it; great. But if not, don't be in the least put out, as thay are usnig maths well beyond the level you have reached. And remember that others can do it to them. Every new intake at Cambridge is full of people who found school maths almost trivially easy. And most of us then meet people who are as far ahead of us as we were of theose struggling with GCSE.



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 7:11:32 GMT
Dear Ol,
Sweet message thank you.
When my highly intelligent nephew went to Imperial to study aeronautical engineering, he was smartly taken down a peg or two by the super brains he met there. Bit of a shock I think, poor lad!
About the only reason I continue to go to Maths Class is because there I meet weird people just like me with the same neuroses and hang ups about the old sums. I'm even 'better' than some of them!
By 'better' I mean that they are often too busy to do the homework and can't practice as much as I can. I'm very lucky.
BUT the main reason I sometimes grasp things that they don't is that they aren't surrounded by about ten lovely friends who talk me through problems, support me, tell me off (!), make me smile and forgive the horrible wobbles I have far too often.
If I do pass this exam, it'll be because of you lot. The Maths Class will have had little to do with it.
****************
For goodness sake s.fluff stop wittering on and get going. Need to get there early so that I can sit in the front. Must make a good impression with Miss.
Thanks again  everybody  I'll make you proud of me yet  you'll see!
sus



Post by FirePig on Apr 22, 2013 7:14:41 GMT
Susu, we are proud of you already!!
FP


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Post by maggiechow on Apr 22, 2013 9:01:37 GMT
Seconded.



Post by Guest on Apr 22, 2013 10:38:24 GMT
Brave Connion (sic) please draw for yourself the arrangement of 6 40cm by 40cm tiles that fill a 1m by 1m space. And if you succeed, post it here. As we both know, in normal Euclidean geometry a square can be filled congruently only by 1, 4, 16 and so on squares. However, as the dimensions reduce they become limited by quantum mechanics effects. With the appropriate geometry and transform the 6 square tiles can be fitted onto a square with the identical area. I shall leave it as an exercise for you, as my maths professor used to say.



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 12:28:32 GMT
DAISY SAVES THE DAY !
Well....not too sure about that but I stopped our FUNCTIONAL maths class from slipping into the realms of equations and cross multiplication this morning!
As a result I don't think 'Miss' likes me much.
More of my daring do's later!!
(Oh dear; I never used to be like this before I got involved with sums)
susukifluff



Post by JollyPresidentBunnerS on Apr 22, 2013 13:51:56 GMT
DAISY SAVES THE DAY !Well....not too sure about that but I stopped our FUNCTIONAL maths class from slipping into the realms of equations and cross multiplication this morning! As a result I don't think 'Miss' likes me much. More of my daring do's later!! (Oh dear; I never used to be like this before I got involved with sums) susukifluff Fair enough Susu  you've not covered any algebra yet .. there was enough to do with other topics .. I don't think it appears in the Level 1 functional maths does it? Not even sure it appears in Level 2 TBH! Does "Miss" know what exam you are all taking? Maybe they've not told her poor thing! Whatever the case  not your problem anyway .. JPBS



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 15:18:03 GMT
Maths Class Report ! (...and come back 'Sir'...! )
'Miss' is a pleasant and obviously competent mathematician. She isn't English but speaks the language well.
BUT....poor woman (and fairly typical of this local adult education setup) had only been given our files of assessments and past work this morning. She obviously had no idea at all (a) what level we were at and (b) really what the curriculum was.
So...she launched into a Level 2 question where we had to find the perecentage of degrees of a pie chart (or something) using equations and cross multiplication. Ian had touched on this v. briefly only once...to show what we might expect to do at GCSE. He told us not to worry about it.
Bless her. Miss carried on relentlessly while we all sat openmouthed. Even after a few muttered comments of muted horror from my class mates, she wouldn't give it up....saying that we weren't under pressure and this would be good practice for the future.
She came to me, sitting stony faced in front of my workings out and asked me if I understood. I said "no" and she uttered those dreadful words " Yes you do understand; you just think you don't"
Aagh.
Enough was enough and as nobody else was going to say anything I said (very pleasantly) that I really didn't think we were up to this level and yes, actually we were under presssure as three of us are taking Level 1 in a few weeks time...and the rest of the class a few months after that.
(My good chum  the one who thinks Pi was talking a load of rubbish  made me a cup of coffee (instant from Poundland for 7 cups...clever girl) after my little pronouncement!
To cut a very long story short (sorry about that) Miss then geared back a whole lot and we went on to Entry Level 3 and Level 1 questions which we could mostly understand.
She's a nice woman and I really don't blame here at all. Why oh why wasn't she given our previous work sheets and assessments before the class began. Or...perhaps...why didn't she herself ask for them a week ago?
Anyway: I think she'll work out o.k. now that both sides understand each other.
But I do miss Sir!!
susukifluff



Post by JollyPresidentBunnerS on Apr 22, 2013 15:36:35 GMT
Just as I suspected Susu .. I'm sure Miss was pleased you explained so cogently  though rather discombobulated .. and who can blame her? JPBS



Post by Organoleptic Icon on Apr 22, 2013 15:43:33 GMT
Where is Miss from?
At the 'varsity I was taught by a man with a strong German accent. It did not help; particularly as he wrote very small and blocked what he was writing with his body so we had to translate and timeshift.
Good job Vector Calculus and Larousse Transforms are so seemples.



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 15:45:01 GMT
Just as I suspected Susu .. I'm sure Miss was pleased you explained so cogently  though rather discombobulated .. and who can blame her? JPBS JPBS: I hope so! Didn't want to make waves on her very first morning but I could just see us all (all pre Level 1) sinking under a sea of 'stuff' which is not part of this exam we are all about to take. Later this year or next, perhaps, but now I think we need to revise what we've done so far. Anyway, as I said, we ended on a good note. She is going to 'try' and find out when our exam is.....nobody seems to know. s.fluff



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 15:48:28 GMT
Where is Miss from? At the 'varsity I was taught by a man with a strong German accent. It did not help; particularly as he wrote very small and blocked what he was writing with his body so we had to translate and timeshift. Good job Vector Calculus and Larousse Transforms are so seemples. That's probably what we were dong this morning...couldn't honestly tell you! Thank God for my Pi chum and her Poundland coffee....much needed. Do you want to know what the problem was we were trying to solve? I'll find it and try and translate it into words on here. Phewee! Feel as if I've been plunged into an 'A' level class! susu



Post by Organoleptic Icon on Apr 22, 2013 15:51:53 GMT
Pie chart ?
Display
50% Eggs 30% Bacon 20% Cheese
Total 100%.
360 degrees in circle, so for each x100/360
Giving 180; 108, 76 degrees of Pie



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 16:15:51 GMT
Mmmm......tasty pie that. Reminds me I must make an eggy and bacon pie....surplus of eggs ....some given as a present for baby sitting duties. Ah hem. O.K. Here is the question we were all getting hot and bothered about: www.functionalskills.com/FunctionalSkills/downloads/Axis_Education_Functional_Skillbuilders_Maths.pdf(IT'S ON PAGE 21) As I said it's Level 2. I expect, well know actually, that you could all do it with your eyes shut but we couldn't!. For a start I wanted to work out the percentages using the total number of parking spaces (255) over 100% ...or something...not a clue really. with the different allocated spaces over the top of the 255 as some sort of fraction. EditNo idea it involved 360 ^{0}. Then we went into this crossmultiplying equation which Miss wrote as follows: 255 > 100% and below: 20 > ? x ...then you have to multiply the 20 by the 100% for some reason and then she wrote this: 20 x 100 = 255x 2000 = 255x/divided by 255 ************************************ Hope you don't think I should have known that! Well, the simple answer is I didn't.....and still don't know what she was talking about. None of us did. [Rather wish I'd looked at that lovely algebra book you gave me the link to here the other day!] ****************** Anyway. Cross multiplication and all that stuff can wait for another day I think. Getting a bit nervous about next Monday already; wonder what other little treats she's got in store! Seriously, though, I'm sure it will all be good from now on. (Sir....where are you?) susu



Post by Organoleptic Icon on Apr 22, 2013 17:41:46 GMT
Susu  It's easy enough.
You don't need percen ts to draw the pie but they want to show the slice sizes as %; so work them out.
Total of 205 normal +30 p&c +20 dis = 255
So 255 spaces is 100%
Disabled 20 spaces is x %
20/255 = x/100
x100 both sides
20/255 *100= x/100*100
20*100/255=x
2000/255=x
Brian will say that is 7.84
How many degrees?
360 in a full circle represent 100%
So 3.6 are 1%.
Just multiply the % by 3.6
7.84x3.6=28.2 degrees
Now do same for the other two.
NB If you did not need top know the % just go straight to degrees
20/255*360=28.2



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 18:18:18 GMT
Susu  It's easy enough. You don't need percen ts to draw the pie but they want to show the slice sizes as %; so work them out. Total of 205 normal +30 p&c +20 dis = 255 So 255 spaces is 100% Disabled 20 spaces is x % 20/255 = x/100 x100 both sides 20/255 *100= x/100*100 20*100/255=x 2000/255=x Brian will say that is 7.84 How many degrees? 360 in a full circle represent 100% So 3.6 are 1%. Just multiply the % by 3.6 7.84x3.6=28.2 degrees Now do same for the other two. NB If you did not need top know the % just go straight to degrees 20/255*360=28.2 Ol: OMG: I understood every word you said! Poor woman; what have I done? Perhaps it's just that I know the way you word things and work things out (usually ! )....and I didn't understand her cross multiplying thingymebob. (You free on Monday mornings for the next few months? There are several of us in need of your way of teaching). ********* Well. She certainly isn't going to love me much now is she? Oh dear. Never mind. susu



Post by Organoleptic Icon on Apr 22, 2013 18:55:05 GMT
Susu  It's easy enough. You don't need percen ts to draw the pie but they want to show the slice sizes as %; so work them out. Total of 205 normal +30 p&c +20 dis = 255 So 255 spaces is 100% Disabled 20 spaces is x % 20/255 = x/100 x100 both sides 20/255 *100= x/100*100 20*100/255=x 2000/255=x Brian will say that is 7.84 How many degrees? 360 in a full circle represent 100% So 3.6 are 1%. Just multiply the % by 3.6 7.84x3.6=28.2 degrees Now do same for the other two. NB If you did not need top know the % just go straight to degrees 20/255*360=28.2 Ol: OMG: I understood every word you said! Poor woman; what have I done? Perhaps it's just that I know the way you word things and work things out (usually ! )....and I didn't understand her cross multiplying thingymebob. (You free on Monday mornings for the next few months? There are several of us in need of your way of teaching). ********* Well. She certainly isn't going to love me much now is she? Oh dear. Never mind. susu It would be fun, but my travel time and expenses might be high!



Post by susukifluff on Apr 22, 2013 20:00:09 GMT
Ol: OMG: I understood every word you said! Poor woman; what have I done? Perhaps it's just that I know the way you word things and work things out (usually ! )....and I didn't understand her cross multiplying thingymebob. (You free on Monday mornings for the next few months? There are several of us in need of your way of teaching). ********* Well. She certainly isn't going to love me much now is she? Oh dear. Never mind. susu It would be fun, but my travel time and expenses might be high! Go for it! Can't tell you how I need to have a 'Sir' who will be a proper teechur. ************ If this part of my maths course goes badly (or I'm expelled for being a 'disruptive influence'...not the first time this has been mentioned) I'm thinking of doing: * Gargoyle Sculpting with ModRoc * Crystal Healingand Dowsing with Crystals * How to be Positive About Your Life * Tui Na Chinese Massage. ********* My life is in your hands. susu

